Just thinking

Exactly one Week ago I decided to start a minor battle of logic and reasoning on my facebook page. I chose to defend what I thought was a difficult position to hold, but I made an interesting discovery, that most people would rather avoid hard facts that challenge their preconceptions. The other group tends to gets angry and resorts to launching a frontal attack on whoever tries to make them provide a rational basis for their opinion. Yet a third group, for the fear of these two would rather quietly "like" the more logical and fact based submission. I fear that the third group is in the majority. No wonder election results sometimes don't favor the loudest candidates.

While I did not set out to support the president's reelection in 2015, but rather, to instigate a compelling argument against my seeming "spoof" of an assertion, in the end, the debate forced the realisation that indeed the realistic alternatives to Goodluck Jonathan in 2015, are bad excuses for a change. The parody is on the Nigerian people!

At the risk of sounding naive, we, the people of Nigeria, have a chance to change this in the future if we chose to "vote" for the adoption of the CONFAB resolutions into law. This implies voting for the reelection of GEJ. The resolution, in my view, provides a brilliantly crafted framework for restoring power to the people, especially in the area of electoral reforms. We need a system that gives our best a fighting chance to contest for the leadership of this country and I think this is an aspect the resolution has addressed quite well. We already have the President's commitment to implement this resolution and we can build on that by ensuring that similar commitment is a condition for voting any national assembly member from our respective areas into power. I sense that voting GEJ is the only chance we have to give life to this document. I have heard comments like, "it is just a document that may be signed into law while the status quo remains". That is naivety as history provides us sufficient evidence to the contrary. Even so, we would have had a document that legitimizes our agitation.

I just pasted the discussion "as is". Expect to see some misplaced grammer here and there. Expect to see me punched a few times. Expect to see me punch back also.

And, let me know what you think.

Here you go...

Leo Ebute

14 September

I think Goodluck Jonathan is our best choice at the 2015 polls. Let me explain - I mean he is a better bet than the options available for us to choose from.
Feel free to agree or disagree with me but let's stick to facts and logic. I will be happy to engage you in a mentally stimulating debate devoid of base emotions like tribe, religion or race. Hopefully, we shall contribute to nation building via this discourse as we engage each other as "Nigerians".
The ground rule: present your best argument using facts, logic and reasonable emotion, accept superior reasoning, change your mind as many times as you wish, accept a good point, tell me when you are convinced, tell me when and why you are not convinced, keep the language civil, write full words (not bbm or sms style), let us understand you in English.
Looking forward to engaging you. Who will fire the first shot?

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· Kenechi Okeleke, Tony Giggs Oyeyiola, Emeagha Austin and 15 others like this.

'Bomi Awesu You are yet to explain why you think he is the better choice.

14 September at 10:03 · Like · 1

Onyimowo M. Abba He's not a better choice because his government's inaction toward the BH issue, especially his refusal to question those named by the Aussie negotiator recently, makes mess of his administration. I'd like to see a Nigerian president who's actually proactive. Being on the defensive side of situation poses danger against any nation in the world. Could you imagine that the Airforce Jet used in bombing some Boko Haram hideouts is now nowhere to be found...

14 September at 10:13 · Like · 6

Leo Ebute Its Bomi! Now I think I am going to be in trouble...you made a fair point. What I have on is the topic. I don't want to be making a list of points just yet. I think it will be easier to address specific areas of agreement or disagreement as they come rather than "kill" the debate before it starts. Feel free to disagree with this approach if you like, but i'd rather "fight you" on the topic (lol).

14 September at 10:22 · Like · 1

'Bomi Awesu RODFL. Politics is a sore point for me. All of us infact.

I'm neither for or against Jonathan. My desire for Nigeria is primarily good governance and I'm safe to assume that's your desire too hence this discussion.

I wish I knew all the candidates contesting for 2015 presidential elections but I don't. So as much as I'll like a thorough discussion, I can't expect it as I also can't give it. That said let me say why I'll rather not Jona.

14 September at 10:26 · Like · 1

'Bomi Awesu 1. Corruption: According to intl sources corruption is at its peak in Nigeria in this dispensation but we don't even need them to know that for sure. The cases of Stella Oduah, allegations against Deziani, Subsidy issues vis-a-vis Sure-P scam, president's non-declaration of assets etc. We aren't blind to all these neither have we been quiet.

2. Security: We know the present state of insecurity wasn't caused my Jona but the question is what has been done to curb it? He's image makers have made us a country of unthinking jesters. #BringBackJonathan. Our girls are missing for close to 200days. More people are dying. Theft, kidnapping, etc have increased yet our president is smiling unperturbed. Dismissing useful information, protecting people who should have been long forgotten. What are the likes of Ciroma still doing on the streets after making comments like "We'll make this country ungovernable for you".

3. Celebration of Criminals: Who pardons men who have raped a nation and celebrates them? Diepreye Alamieyeseigha. Who dines with the likes of ex-gov Sheriff? What happened with the outcry against ex-pensions boss?

Where's the man we elected to protect us? His accomplishments exist but they pale in comparison with these inadequancies I would rather another man who may deliver on these crucial issues than one plays politics with our very existence. I love Jonathan but I desire much more.

14 September at 10:57 · Like · 6

Kayode Oladapo Leo. Let me just get this right before I go off. Your message and the point of this exercise is that we BRING UP WINNING ARGUMENTS FOR THE ALTERNATIVE TO JONATHAN RIGHT?? Not state d f**king OBVIOUS Facts about the ineptitude of his administration abi??

14 September at 11:04 · Like · 1

'Bomi Awesu Generally speaking, I want the likes of Jimi Agbaje, Fashola, Oshiomole in politics.

14 September at 11:09 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute @Onyimowo M. Abba - I agree with you that perhaps, and I say with emphasis, PERHAPS GEJ could have done better with the war on terror. But contrast that with those who started fighting the war on terror before Naija. BH has been to a large extent contained within thesame core areas of Borno, Yobe and Adamawa since 2009. ISIS, inspite of the effort of USA and her allies has spread to 5 countries in less than 6Months and recruited 31,000 fighters, 5000 of which are US and European citizens. The USA also spent years in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, spent biilions of Dollars, deployed over a 100,000 troops, lost thousands of soldiers and if anything, increased terrorist activities in these areas. If GEJ has failed then the USA government has, in comparison, redefined failure. I won't bother with the laughable allegations of the so called Aussie negotiator for 2 reasons: 1. It is an allegation not a fact. 2. The allegation does not pass my logic test - if I was BH, why will I tell a negotiator, the source that sponsors my very survival? I will rather send the world on a wild goose chase as far from the my sponsors as possible. Missing plane? That is ridiculous.

14 September at 11:29 · Like · 2

Leo Ebute @Bomi - I like your wish list. Those are not even options the electoral permutations can throw up at the moment. I have even better names on my wish list. Like me. (LOL)

14 September at 11:33 · Like

'Bomi Awesu Your name came up in my head with the likes of Wole Temidire Aguda but I decided to save it for later in the discussion. If we will see the Nigeria we should and can have some of you have to retire from your current benches and move into the match sooner rather than later.

14 September at 11:36 · Like · 2

Leo Ebute @Kayode Oladapo - If telling me how inept this administration has been is your chosen approach, then I will expect you to show how the alternatives will be any better. Otherwise we would be having another debate not this one.

14 September at 11:37 · Like

'Bomi Awesu We are still waiting to hear your opinions as against your answers.

14 September at 11:38 · Like

Leo Ebute @Bomi, Speaking of your point about not knowing who the other candidate is/are, he is called the north. My Northern brothers think they 'deserve' to be president, like it is a birth right that must be bequeathed to them naturally. So instead of fighting via legitimate means to be elected, they rather begin the fighting when they, as expected, fail to be elected. They nurture a misguided feeling of deprivation at not being president when in their view, they deserve to be 'crowned' one by virtue of their ancestry, region or other similar providential considerations. They forget to express their desire for the seat through honest work like campaigns, but rather go the fools way to discount the electorate by their declaration of their right to Aso rock. Fools way it is to forget that leadership in a democracy is not first for the deserving, but for the desiring - that desire being expressed in the campaign for votes. Deserving men get appointed, not elected! Apt advise from the noblest of their kinsmen Tafawa Balewa who counselled us to "give leadership to desiring men, not deserving men - a counsel totally ignored by his kin to the glee of discerning men like GEJ who has shown a great deal of respect for democratic governace (I will dwell a little on this point later). Do they deserve to rule us? Obviously the electorate doesn't think so, that is why they didn't get our votes last time out. Why has the approach then not changed? Why are they still chanting "it is the turn of the North"?

14 September at 11:45 · Like · 1

'Bomi Awesu Didn't know this is the POV, wouldn't have started.

14 September at 11:55 · Like

Leo Ebute @Bomi - "Where's the man we elected to protect us? His accomplishments exist but they pale in comparison with these inadequancies I would rather another man who may deliver on these crucial issues than one plays politics with our very existence. I love Jonathan but I desire much more."

Succint observations you have made. The crucial missing piece in your submission is how the "another man" can be any better. This other man is "the North" as I have mentioned earlier, not anyone on your wish list remember.

Secondly, you may have read the submissions of the CONFAB. Excellent recommendations that will atleast legitimize our constitution and infact deepen the core tenets of democratic governance. GEJ convened the CONFAB amidst cries of "it will fail", and has promised to push for its execution. If that is the only campaign promise GEJ will make, it is more than enough. He would have done more for this nation than all the others put together. This document does not stand a fighting chance if GEJ is not re-elected. No Patriot, democrat or discerning citizen of this country allow the people's wishes, as intelligently expressed in the confab resolutions, to be sacrificed on the ignoble alter of power rotation.

14 September at 12:05 · Like · 1

'Bomi Awesu My argument would have been different if I had known your idea of opponent is the north.

14 September at 12:21 · Like

Leo Ebute @Bomi - You are an economist so this travesty won't be lost on you. Trillions of Dollars of losses and a global financial melt down were the result of activities in the US subprime Mortgage market. The logic is this, when losses are made somewhere, profits are made elsewhere. In other words, what is lost = what is found. The so-called lost moneys did not vaporise into oblivion. The activities that led to that situation happened in the US. That fraud is bigger than Nigeria's total GDP from inception to date. How come the corruption rating agencies completely missed this obvious one?
Infact, it is on record that as at December , 2011, the US has spent $29 Trillion of tax payer's money to bail out US companies like AIG, Fanny May, Freddi Mac, GM motors, and some of the biggest banks in the world. Nearly all those companies declared a profit thesame year and the CEO's got their "performance" bonuses. How? The corruption watch dogs missed that too right? An estimated 10% of that money missed the mark ($2.9trillion). That would be the equivalent of our total budget for the next 38years (at N12 trillion per annum).
We are high on widespread corruption but so very far down on large scale corruption on any corruption-meter available. The west can shut up about being less corrupt. Res ipsa loquitur - the facts speak for themselves.

14 September at 12:29 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute @Bomi - have you heard any rumur of any opposing candidate from any other region apart from core north? That is the point!

14 September at 12:33 · Like

Kunle Derek Bolufawi @Leo, if you think this is the best we can have for a president, then i'm affraid there is no future for this country! You started your piece by saying every argument should be devoid of sentiments, but it now seem you've actually battered that position by solely pitching GEJ against the 'North' in the race for the presidency.

14 September at 12:43 · Like · 3

'Bomi Awesu Thanks for putting my thoughts in words Kunle.

@Leo: I agree the west isn't less corrupt but are we comparing or looking for the way foward. Does the west being black make us any whiter?

14 September at 12:48 · Like · 4

Onyimowo M. Abba Leo's take on this argument or debate has been mesmerised by his choice of naming "North" as opponent. Isn't that an aisle of sentiment? For a nation like ours' to be born with progressive tenets, we must look at individual credibility and blindfold our hearts' eyes from looking at where he's from. I still hibernate to watch from behind.

14 September at 13:00 · Like · 5

Leo Ebute @Kunle Derek Bolufawi - All the other candidates, whether declared, rumured, suspected etc., are all Northerners. This is fact not sentiments. I doubt that you know any candidate that is not a Northerner. Since the discussion is about GEJ and other candidates, who now happen to be all Northerners, I made some attempt to show you why it is not a coincidence that this is the case. Since I draw my insights from the phrase "it is time for the North" which seem to have dominated the opposing party's selection process, I cannot be blamed for this 'sentiment' as you put it. It is purely fact.
I will be happy to hear you name a non-Northern candidate that is even rumured to contest the primaries in any of the major parties.

14 September at 13:02 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute @Kunle - let me also state a discalimer that I never at any point said, or intend to say that GEJ is the best we can have for a president. The debate is a straight shootout between him and what the opposition is rumured to or actually offering or have offered in the past.
There is a future for this country. Afterall I am still here. And you too for that matter.

14 September at 13:06 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute @Bomi - thanks for agreeing with me here. It doesn't make us whiter that they are black. My point is that if the rating agencies can miss this obvious fact, we must then question both their credibility and their intention especially when they call us black. The message is meaningless when a robber tells a petty thief to stop pilfering or makes a list pilferers. Maybe that is why the ratings have not reduced corruption.
A more inward looking approach is more meaningful. The CONFAB proposals offer some general framework upon which we can build risk management strategies to address corruption using institutions instead of super stars like we are currently doing.

14 September at 13:18 · Like

Alabi Olugbenga Olakunle Leo, when I hear intellects like you settle for Jonathan, for lack of a better alternative, I weep for this country. Kayode used the word ineptitude, I can't think of a better word ( wish there was one stronger though). 'Bomi simply speaks my mind but permit me to recall a few that makes my skin crawl: Stella Oduah, Deziani and the $20 Bio issue, pension fund, Alamiesegha amongst others. Then there's the enrichment of militants like Asari under the guise of rehabilitation, which empowers Asari to threaten the Nigerian state without reprehension. Using the police as a "family" tool (case in point Mbu). The fact is the good alternatives will never get there because of corruption and selfish interests. We are where we are because people like you and I, in the past and present, have made our leaders who they are. So I weep because instead of settling for ineptitude, we should be resisting it and insisting on what this country needs, and what we need is not a Jonathan.

14 September at 13:27 · Like · 4

Leo Ebute @Onyimowo M. Abba - like i said to Kunle, I wait for you to name any rumured, actual, proposed, or intended candidate from any of the major parties who isn't a Notherner. The fact that this is a fact is what this is about. The first part is why is this the fact? The second part is whether these candidates have better credentials than the incumbent. I say no.

14 September at 13:28 · Like

Joachim Agbo Nigeria is a nation of almost 400 tribes but emphasis has never respected the majority-the minority. I attended a symposium sometimes in 2010 in the centre for Democratic studies of the Bayero University, Kano. The guest speaker was, Prof. Pat Utomi . The northern elderstateman, Alh. Maitama Sule.made a comment which further strengthened the "deserving theory" of the North. He said, " allow the Ibos to develop entrepreneurial ability, the Yorubas to handle the education of the country and the hausas to rule the country because of their leadership ability."
Just to buttress the deserving theory mentioned by Leo. My stand, very soon.

14 September at 13:32 · Like · 1

Abayomi Adamolekun Mr leo i love your reasoning and logical explanation you give to the reasons behind your thought...my question is this on what economic,social and political frame work can president build on?Where is GEJ 10yrs rolling plan for the country?

14 September at 13:37 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute @Alabi Olugbenga Olakunle - Fantastic point. You just led me faster down my chosen path. You see the CONFAB documents makes provision for independent candidates to contest within reasonable caveat. This is the only hope we have for the right guys to be elected. The current partisan context is engineered to replicate and perpetuate their kind "legitimately". This is why we must do everything to ensure the CONFAB resolution is passed into law and implemented. Voting GEJ gives this resolution a chance at life. We should massively insist that this resolution must be a must do on the manifesto of every Senator or House of Reps member we will elect from our areas. We must give momentum to GEJ's promise to implement it.
If we achieve this, we would have done the best for this nation even if we have to endure another 4 years of GEJ. I also insist that GEJ is not as inept as Nigerians think he is. The economic indicators, financial numbers, HDI numbers and even security situation as compared to the very advanced countries does not support this assertion.

14 September at 13:41 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute @Alabi Olugbenga Olakunle - Fantastic point. You just led me faster down my chosen path. You see the CONFAB documents makes provision for independent candidates to contest within reasonable caveat. This is the only hope we have for the right guys to be elected. The current partisan context is engineered to replicate and perpetuate their kind "legitimately". This is why we must do everything to ensure the CONFAB resolution is passed into law and implemented. Voting GEJ gives this resolution a chance at life. We should massively insist that this resolution must be a must do on the manifesto of every Senator or House of Reps member we will elect from our areas. We must give momentum to GEJ's promise to implement it.
If we achieve this, we would have done the best for this nation even if we have to endure another 4 years of GEJ.
I also insist that GEJ is not as inept as Nigerians think he is. The economic indicators, financial numbers, HDI numbers and even security situation as compared to the very advanced countries do not support this assertion.

14 September at 13:42 · Like

Alabi Olugbenga Olakunle CONFAB resolution, you think that's the key? I'm not gonna hold my breath. I wish you the best.

14 September at 13:45 · Like

Dimka Philemon Helpus I concor wit u all d way. Logic is human form twisted to fit any shape a man wants.

14 September at 13:48 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute Not the "THE KEY" a very important key to legitimising the yearnings of the people. It provides a legitimate platform for the true "people's" candidate to emerge. Even I can do a lot in such a context. There are numerous examples from history to support my position.
The truth is, GEJ should win simply because the opposition does not have a clue to navigating the PDP maze at the national level. Also, Tinubu will characteristical trade anything in exchange for Lagos. I'd rather the people also get a bargain we can use in exchange for that victory. And, yes, we can really use this resolution. By God we will.

14 September at 13:57 · Like

Leo Ebute @Abayomi Adamolekun - No governement in Nigeria can make a 10year plan except in deceit. Policy summersault is a common and inallienable feature of our kind of democracy. This is because our system relies on superstars to succeed. E.g. NAFDAC seem to take life from Dora Akunyili and appears buried with her, Irene Chigbue, Obi Ezekweseli, El Rufai, and currently Adesina of the agriculture ministry all gave credible account of themselves. The problem is, superstars either die or fade out which makes this approach unsustainable. This is not GEJ's doing.
We are advocating a framework for institution led development where the ministries and parastals of government are re-tooled as it were to work like machines with a legal autonomy. Combine this with the sort of guided fiscal federalism structure the CONFAB proposes and maybe we stand a chance.
Anything other this will work until a "Pharaoh that knew not Joseph" comes along, which is a certainty.

14 September at 14:10 · Like

Joachim Agbo Within the context of this discussion, I am bewildered that there has been no mention of any alternative candidate(s) by this panel or do we call it the anti-GEJ camp. With the exception of Bomi who highlighted some names. Even @ that, the so-called progressives who are on the rescue mission would not availed these named personalities the chance. Simply because the motive is so myopic self centred and lack the fundamentals for nation building. Why the insistence on a particular segment of the nation to be an alternativ

How did we get to where we are? I am waiting for anyone who can finger a name among the so-called progressive who has not directly or indirectly plundered this country.
I am on a search for a viable,verified, capable ,futuristic leader with the ingredients of premeditated leadership visions for Nigeria and not the remove Jonathan 2015 indomie-like approach

14 September at 15:01 · Unlike · 3

Elizabeth Ochigbo Onmonya @ Soni Akoji please meet a Jonathanian.

14 September at 15:02 · Like

Abayomi Adamolekun @ Leo When we cant have a govt policy that looks into the future,nd try to create long lasting institutions that can serve as foundation on which a nation can be truely built on, it amazes me the sucess that can come out of such leadership?We need proper and accountable leaders,with a vision for the country....Remember where there is no Vision the people perish...On the bases of vision,policy,respect for the common pple GEJ does not fit my idea of president....Where there is no regard to life?We deserve better i think????

14 September at 15:26 · Like

Manas Dalong This are all intelligent arguments LEO, but i tell you that you have contaminated your points with sentiments which you claim earlier on not entertain. Have you closely study and x-ray the opponents in view b/4 drawing to such conclusion?well u're entitle to ur opinion. Believe me you there are better presidential candidate in the ruling party than the incumbent but can not contest the primaries with him. reasons you know best. Coming to the oppositions, though i'm not one, have you ever though of how corruption will be dealt with head up if the likes of Buhari comes to power? which is the prime enemy of our economic devt. Pls keep aside religious tenets and lets face reality. i'm a christian n also pro Jonathan.

14 September at 15:36 · Like

Stephen Egbadekwu Indeed Goodluck Ebele Jonathan is our bet choice for now . But can someone tell me why some better young or old hands like Leo Ebute can'nt come out to contest for the office of the President of this great Country? I see many better hands but certainly not among what we have on the information desk now. Jonathan is our bet choice for now.

14 September at 15:38 · Like

Joy Ibeh I disagree. He has no mind of his own and is weak willed. I honestly cannot say I will vote for him come next year. His leadership has produced nothing of value to this nation. I am at the stage where I pray daily "come Lord Jesus". I mean how could he hold a rally a day after cases of Ebola were found in PH? Sorry o but I can't support another term. Let someone else have a shot.

14 September at 15:48 · Like · 1

Joachim Agbo @Ibeh. Please, we would appreciate facts that explain your position of him not having his own mind. I am waiting for that "someone." I am opened to another better option.

14 September at 16:15 · Like

Joy Ibeh Where do I start? The Stella Oduah issues? Or Boko Haram? Or privatization of NEPA which yet to yield anything? Please tell me one sector where we have made any headway in the last 4 years? Please, just one? Joachim over to you. Let's not be sentimental sometimes the devil we know is just that. I don't see him improving with another tenure when he has nothing to lose.

14 September at 16:20 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute @Manas Dalong - You made 2 errors of logic in your submission.
1. You failed to state the specific area(s) I have contaminated my point with sentiments. How then can I respond to you?
2.You asked if I have x-rayed as it were, the opponents before making my submission. Firstly, I certainly have made representations to suggest that I have - I infact called them "the North". Secondly, even if I didn't, the Onus is on you to show, on the basis of their superior credentials, that they are better than GEJ. I noticed you barely bothered with this yourself except that you mentioned Buhari and his fraudulent claim to being fraud free, which, in your view makes him atleast a panacea for corruption in Nigeria. My next paragraph addresses Buhari more specifically.
I was actually hoping no one will mention Buhari as even a remote better alternative to GEJ. I knew this was too much to hope for anyways. It is not my usual style but because of the weight of incontrovertible evidence I have, let me state unequivocally that Buhari has committed the worst form of fraud this country has ever seen. For the purpose of clarity, let me insert the definition of fraud from wikipedia, "Fraud is a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain". When Buhari usurped power from the Shagari administration, he cited corruption as the main reason for the coup. My question then is, who did he jail for corruption after he (Buhari) took over?

More generally speaking, I think ineptitude is a bigger problem than corruption in Nigeria. You should agree with me that governance in our present times is beyond the likes of Buhari. Even in his era, he fought inflation like a soldier and litereally stiffled commerce. Things a lot more complex these days.

14 September at 17:08 · Edited · Like · 1

Stephen Egbadekwu @ibeh: ma, you gave cursory points. I wish you could explain ur points for more clearity. Also, do you have any bet choice? If you do then state your reasons.

14 September at 16:38 · Like

Bankole Adeogun When myopia impedes the sights, it always seems the wrong way is the only way.

14 September at 16:47 · Like · 1

Wale Adediran Leo, too many submissions to read and digest. One word why i will never understand any sort of rationalisation for the Ijaw man. Corruption! As far as i can understand, 90% of our scenario is caused by mere stealings. We need somebody who won't unashamedly grant a fugitive a state pardon.

14 September at 17:06 · Like · 2

Joy Ibeh Thank God for reason. Seconded, Wale

14 September at 17:08 · Like

Leo Ebute @ Wale Adediran - I think we all agree with you. The point is whether anyone like that is up for us to chose from. It is a straight shootout between the options available to us.

14 September at 17:10 · Like

Leo Ebute It has been engaging so far. A big thanks to everyone.
When I posted this topic 7hours ago, I had no intention of being right. I hoped there was something out there I had missed - some fact I didn't have - some logic to open the mind and give wings to the thought that perhaps someone better was going to contest in 2015. 7Hours and I see none of our best in the race. How can we change this permanently so that we give our best candidates a legitimate fighting chance? I think the CONFAB resolutions speak to this. Without GEJ this document is history like the others before it. With GEJ, it could be different; It is GEJ last term, he is from a minority group, he has shown more respect for democratic governance than those before him, it is in his interest to implement this resolution. I agree with Chief Victor Umeh, national chairman of APGA, that the CONFAB is our best bet towards sustainable progress.

My counsel is that we vote GEJ and every other national assembly member who will boldly declare their intention to implement this resolution. GEJ has declared this already but we need to force the issue to relevance when the campaign begins proper.

Have you read the report? There is a summary here: http://leadership.ng/.../confab-recommends-creation-18...
If you have more shots to fire, please do. Feel free to share the discussion in other fora like some of you have done already and see if we can glean any new realities.
Cheers.

Confab Recommends Creation Of 18 New States - Nigerian News from Leadership...

LEADERSHIP.NG

14 September at 18:13 · Like · 1 · Remove Preview

Manas Dalong Oh yeah, @Leo i haven't done with butressing my points, suddenly my battery went down, remember you are relating your opposition with Northern agitation for power rotation. However, if you were looking at the opposition whollistically you would have comprehend that anybody can emerge from any Geo-zone. Nonetheless, looking at the political atmosphere, so far APC haven been the strong opposition and their likelyhood presidential candidate would either be Atiku or Buhari. Forget about sentiment how pple, especially the cabals detest Buhari. History has it way of repeating itself, tackling corruption in Nig is instrumental to econ devt. I knw Goodluck has done his best but it is not good enough. Nig need iron hands in handling it affairs. Let me not talk too much coz i might end up castigating our President with emperical points and facts. Remember in Nigeria, late president Umaru Yar addua of blessed memory was The first governor to public declare his asset, n did same when elected as president, He was from a rich family background, has a late brother who has half of the wealth Nigeria as a federation can boast of, 2 terms serving governor yet how much was in his bank a/c, and his entire asset? Did Goodluck follow suit? Late Umaru on two account reduce the price of fuel which happen to be also first in the history of Nig, b4 his demise at the verge of solving the power problem. And many more like permanent solution to Niger delta militants, crush the early boko haram insurgents just with a year and a half b/4 his prolong illness, and came Goodluck whom assume the president to complete the remainin term of his late boss, and then we entrusted him with another term of four years, Leo, in the name of God if in six years u can not make poverty n hunger, or corruption, or unemployment or power, or health problem a thing of the past, how much many years wuld you require to deal with just 1 or 2? Well Leo if you are telling me that tomorrow if given d mandate

14 September at 18:29 · Like

Wale Adediran I can't support any conclusions that will make mockery of our clamour for fiscal responsibility on the part of government. Creating more states to pander to the cries of every ethnic nationality is not the way forward. A more meaningful direction would seek to empower the local government institutions. GEJ simply gathered every disgruntled politician in each region and railroaded them into this silly document.

14 September at 18:31 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute No document better empowers the local government. you should read the document more closely. I will post a discourse on the core areas of the document for further scrutiny at a later date. The state creation aspect is inconsequential when you read the structure of fiscal federalism the document is proposing. Watch this space!

14 September at 18:35 · Like

Wale Adediran Right now, 70% of all we've got goes into oiling the government. Creating a score of states will probably take that percentage into the 80's and 90's. We won't get very far.

14 September at 18:37 · Like · 1

Joy Ibeh I'm sorry but I don't think the Confab document is likely to see the light of day frankly. The best way forward may be to run things like in the days of the protectorates, similar to what obtains in Switzerland where each region has some degree of autonomy. Splitting things further hasn't helped much so far so long as the centre is too strong. We have 36 states and not much to show for it. Let there be maybe 6 geopolitical zones/states or something with strong rulers and then a cental prime minister. Each region would raise its own capital and be responsible for its development.

14 September at 18:56 · Like

Leo Ebute Not really. Infact if there was any point the delegates acknowledged, it is that only 3 states in the curent setup are economically viable. Viability therefore was not the basis for creating any state. Every state must therefore emerge on the basis of a political/cultural homogeneity. How to fund them is appropriately dealt with in their proposed structure of fiscal appropriation. The document does reflect common sense and logic in the core areas in my view - ofcourse. Maybe state creation will be our first topic.

14 September at 19:06 · Like

Solomon Maren I am sincerely learning from the discourse on this platform, especially the logic of Leonism. However the blacket colouration given to all candidates from the north, in my view, is uncharitable. Look at the massive institutional and infrastuctural development on-going in Kano and Jigawa states; those governors have indicated interest in the Presidency. Should we jettison them simply because they are "north"? I think any of them is an alternitive to GEJ.

14 September at 19:10 · Like

Joy Ibeh 18 more? U really think that would help? I think it's over the top, and I've read the document. In the current set up won't it be just another opportunity for another set of people to go and "chop" their own national cake? What safeguards do we have against further looting? More states are not the answer.

14 September at 19:12 · Like

Wale Adediran Leo, theories about "how to fund new states"have always been bandied around, reality tells us that they dont suffice. Creations based on cultural homogeneity will always lead to more agitations. The only state where we have such homogenous aclaim is Ekiti. Unless we plan to have 400 states, there will always be minority groups in every state. However, we already have local councils for every ethnic group. This states will always require handouts from the center and mind you, in a half decent federation, the center would not be so funded.

14 September at 19:23 · Like

Leo Ebute @Solomon Maren - Do give voice to this 'massive institutional and infrastructural development'. I will be happy to consider them on their own merit. My point was that all the aspirants did not just "happen" to be Northerners. That feeling of entitlement is destructive and amounts to discounting the electorate.

14 September at 19:27 · Like · 1

Wale Adediran Talking about alternatives to GEJ, i say there are plenty, even from the north (fair is fair, its there turn). My argument will be strongly premised on comparable performances of the parties jostling.

Leo earlier spoke about championing and building institutions and not individuals. I'll say we vote alomg party lines!!! The APC outperforms the PDP states with some degree of similarities in the direction of deliverables. The PDP epitomised by the center continues to work withouth a plan of any sort.

The APC seems to have an ideology in place, every governor seems to tow that line. I think we have the semblance of a Governance template in the APC.

Anybody they present will be my alternative to Jonathan.

14 September at 19:31 · Like

Leo Ebute @ Wale Adediran In reality, that is what federalism should breed. I think we should worry about a sustainable framework for this agitation should look like. If we consider sections of the document in isolation of other sections we will have an inconclusive argument which tends to be mentally frustrating. I move for an adjournent of our debate on this document.

14 September at 19:32 · Like

Wale Adediran I need to read the full document, however, knowing the antecedents of most of the people who put it together, i won't hold my breadth. Like i said, all the politicians that lost out and drifted towards extinction just found a voice. Hardly inspiring.

14 September at 19:35 · Like

Leo Ebute @Wale Adediran - I challenge you to support your argument with an example of insitution based development unique to the APC.
A party to party shootout may also be rather diversionary because parties are by their nature a general platform from which individuals emerge. Also, the APC does not have a history at the center and therefore a direct comparison will be misleading. Even at that, I am happy to still debate this route with you if you so choose.

14 September at 19:38 · Like

Wale Adediran I was almost enjoying your position until it became clear that the only reason you wanted PDP/GEJ to continue this phony rule is because of a worthless document. A document that will do nothing to arrest the greatest problem Nigeria has. A document that would still be subject to the whims and caprices of a man who loves corruption and openly encourages it.

14 September at 19:39 · Like · 1

Wale Adediran Am no party member but i like what i see when i visit Benin ( i knew the town when Igbinedion was there). I like what i see when i look around Lagos. Ogun continues to astonish me ( i knew the daniel era).

What am saying is, these states are not only building roads, but they all are trying to strengthen similar institutions for the Enviroment and health. A lot to desire but they have a start.

14 September at 19:45 · Like

Leo Ebute @wale - the document aside, there is absolutely no difference between the PDP and APC. No dividing line of ideological difference or even personae between any of the players. Actually, in terms of personel, the APC seem to be the abode of disgruntled ex PDP. Ikimi already cannot stand the rot in even at this infancy stage.
. Trust me, corruption is not our biggest problem, it is inept leadership. That document proposes an electoral process that will potentially eliminate inept candidates. Don't let your reservation on state creation distract you.

14 September at 19:48 · Like · 1

Wale Adediran I just cant see myself wishing PDP any luck. Give me one point agenda every term and 9ja should be half fixed by now. Give me light, give me roads then give me education. Its not rocket science. Just import a template from somewhere and keep the thieves in jail so we get little siphoning.

Remember what people said last time out? We are not voting for PDP, we are voting for Goodluck! Even if he had good intentions, he can't rule in a vacuum.

I will rather have Fashola, Oshiomole, Amosun, El rufai rather than have Bode George, Obanikoro, Ikimi, Sherif and co as the confidants of my president.

14 September at 19:57 · Edited · Like

Leo Ebute I do not see the big institutional changes you talk about. I see only infrastructure upgrades and you will agree that many PDP governors can make that list.
Unfortunately, non of the folks you mentioned are in the race for presidency. Secondly, nothing is there to show that this aren't just superstars until the leave and we do not see policy reversals (see Peter Obi vs current administration). Do they have any program that has taken up a life of its pwn like OBJ did with banking sector reforms fro eg.?

14 September at 19:58 · Like

Wale Adediran You forget they are only state governors, in Nigeria, only the center is saddled with making such impacts. Remember when Tinubu wanted to generate electrical power in Lagos, they said he must put it on the national grid. Remember when he tried creating more local governments to accomodate 20m people? PDP said he must not and subsequently made attempts to cripple him. Power reforms, health reforms, big infrastructural projects etc can only be embarked upon by the center. Such is the travesty of our system.

The need for a conference has been well documented. What we want is however a Sovereign Conference. We dont need a conference that will go back to the same clowns for validation. GEJ knows this and the whole conference was just a charade.

14 September at 20:05 · Like

Leo Ebute Now you agree we that we cannot then make comparison.

14 September at 20:05 · Like

Wale Adediran We can compare Daniel with Amosun. Compare Ajimobi with Akala. Compare Oshiomole with Igbinedion.

Gives us little pointers.

14 September at 20:07 · Like

Leo Ebute Non- made any insitutitonal change like you pointed out. Why bother with the diversion? I doubt that we want to compare governors' scorecards...
That "charade" as you put it contains brilliant submissions that can make a difference when it becomes law. I say we fight to make it law.

14 September at 20:11 · Like

Wale Adediran Depends on what yoy mean bu institutions. Before LAWMA Lagos was the dirtiest state around ( now LAWMA is being replicated across the country). Before LASTMA, people sleep im traffic (now LASTMA has been replicated across the country. Clueless PDP even tried fashioning FERMA in same mode). BRT is being replicated across the country.

My point is, these APC/ACN boys have actually blazed the trail. Regardless of their well known Shenanigans. I would rather give them a shot at the center. Even people like Fola Adeola were attracted. Maybe he can help attract more of his ilk.

The few good guys in the PDP are trying to get out, just stalling and watching the direction of the wind. The bolder ones like Amechi and the Kano guy are out already. Funny enough, the pdp governors trying to emulate the acn templates are the ones having problems with GEJ and the establishment.

14 September at 20:20 · Like

Tongdyen D. Dachung I'm glad Young Nigerians are this interested in their country, This Topic is one good way to use Facebook. Well done Leo.

14 September at 20:31 · Like · 1

Leo Ebute FERMA was formed in 2002 by Obasanjo in his first term.In reality, only Lagos needs BRT and LASTMA for that matter. The fact that other APC states copy Lagos wholesale is a show of ineptitude. I can argue that no where is the public as brazenly looted for private gains like Lagos. Case study, the lekki, Ajah, Ikoyi toll saga, outrageous vehicle licensing charges, duplicated charges in real estate to name a few. It does a good job of legitimizing this exploitation to the utter chagrin of the discerning. No wonder many believe that Tinubu will trade anything to keep Lagos. I share this sentiment too given the outcome of the last election where GEJ had over 95% of Lagos votes.

14 September at 20:36 · Like

Elusakin Wole Hey Leo, sorry I'm coming a bit late. I particularly liked your point on no clear difference between APC and PDP. What we currently have is political racketeering. Let's be fair to GEJ, he's done some good job e.g. the privatization of PHCN. Electricity supply is more stable now. I think he's also working on some other infrastructural projects that will help the country. However, on international relations, he's not done too well. He need to get more experienced hands to handle that bit. On internal security, he need to be bold and face things squarely. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't have military experience to handle that bit and he's not sure of who's on his side and not. On internal relations, he's got more over zealous staff in his cabinet making serious blunders e.g Dr. Doyin Okupe with#bringbackjonathan campaign. Completely senseless. I think in all GEJ has good plans but terrible team members. He need more aggressive and result oriented youth in his cabinet. Say 70% youth and 30% elders. Youth in this case is below age 50.

14 September at 20:49 · Like · 2

Wale Adediran When was LASTMA formed ? I could have joined in 2000. On the seemimg commercialisation of Lagos, its easy for us to fault in the beer parlour. In reality, when you have 16m people earning less than 2m people and having no derivation from the federal revenues generated in Lagos, you need to tax the citizens more for their own survival. You tax the rich to take care of the poor. Only the rich drive cars, only the rich build houses.

On the last election, everybody i knew save for a few voted GEJ. They even made distictions betwen him and PDP. Tinubu lost fair and square. Just like the people of Ekiti just decided to kick out there best ever governor for the worst ever. Its the travesty of democracy in a federal set up.

14 September at 20:53 · Edited · Like

Elusakin Wole @wale who's the best governor ever in Ekiti? Dr Fayemi u mean

14 September at 20:54 · Like

Wale Adediran Fayemi i refered to. We should not forget that Ekiti should be one of the poorest in the country by the way.

14 September at 20:56 · Like

Leo Ebute When you have a government that ensures that the people indeed can kick out even a good candidate, then you have a democracy. GEJ excels in his respect for the will of the people. Osun state is a recent example which could never have happened under OBJ. I think this president is indeed a respecter of the right of the people to chose.

14 September at 21:01 · Like

Wale Adediran He tried to tip the balance in Osun. Intimidations and arrests aplenty. Just that the other boys were ready that time..

Why do you think he gave Obanikoro the control of soldiers ? If 70k military boys are in Bornu, we might be sleeping a little better.

14 September at 21:06 · Like

Leo Ebute The fact is the people prevailed. This is the point. The people CAN prevail as they did. I was over-joyed to see the inglorious Omisore disgraced. But that is talk for another day.

14 September at 21:13 · Like

Wale Adediran Leo, i forget you have a very "set mind". Let me watch some TV. We'll start early saturday morning some other time.

14 September at 21:18 · Like

Elusakin Wole The truth is if APC were to be controlling Federal Govt, things might be worse. I see APC as a party that will be more autocratic in style. My opinion

14 September at 21:28 · Like · 1

Ekpeta Austine The truth of the matter is that, Goodluck Jonathan is not the reason behinde all the turmoils, frakers or whatso-ever. The thing there is that the northerns believes they re the founder of Nigeria. Take it or leave it Mr. President ii pilot the ship 2015 on. And for the Lagos state elections, let APC gives way to PDP.

14 September at 23:05 · Edited · Like · 1

Kunle Derek Bolufawi @Leo, i decided to opt out of this exposition when i discovered that the standing rule had been inadvertently violated by non other than the poster himself(you). You have degenereted to defensive and reactionary posits rather than the 'clear mind' brainstorming aimed at presenting a better candidate for our dear country comes 2015. My prayer is that; may God teach our youth the truth to know!

15 September at 07:40 · Like

Leo Ebute @Kunle Derek Bolufawi - My post made it clear that I meant to defend my chosen fort, albeit logically and with factual basis. You have neither accused me of a lack of logic and nor of paucity of facts to support my submissions. To this extent, I beg to say you too took long to understand what this was about. The point was to "defend" my thoughts on the subject matter against yours so as to test it's validity. The whole idea was to "react" to your point of view so that you can bring on your best hand. The only caveat to this was to ensure that facts and logic prevailed over emotions and sentiments. Thanks for inadvertently giving me credit for doing a good job of it.
I presumed you went on a research break to name a non-Northern candidate - a gauntlet I threw down in response to your last post before this. I'd wager the research may have validated my position. I will accept this involuntary compliment with good humured glee. Thank you very much.

15 September at 23:01 · Edited · Like · 2

Wale Adediran Thers is no need for a non Northern candidate at this stage. The south has had a run of 14 years interluded by 2 Yaradua years. Am voting a northern candidate next election. We'll have 4 years of relative peace.

15 September at 10:35 · Like · 1

Austin Bola Audu @ Wale Adediran "Relative peace" at the expense of a northern candidate...? I used to think that we could do this country a favour and pray for the BEST candidate. One with some sense to improve our lot. Me thinking...

15 September at 16:37 · Like · 1

Idahosa Dave The truth is what difference does it make. Power to the North, nothing changes. still same old style... They take the power, we have peace. you and I can move freely across Nigeria. Trust me we wouldn't need FG in our lives. Afterall na FG make Nollywood and Music Industry what it is?

15 September at 16:50 · Like

Wale Adediran Austin Bola Audu one thing is certain; there is no lot improvement as long as we keep bombing and shooting each other. First and foremost, i want to be safe. If it means letting go of my southern Christian ego, so be it.

15 September at 16:51 · Like

Ify Angel Y are u pple debating on noting y Mr P has not said anytin 4 himself

15 September at 17:53 · Like

Leo Ebute @Wale - This country is OUR country and no group has a bigger right to rule it than others if democracy is our chosen form of government. To allow the thought is to discard our common patrimony in a manner reminiscent of the Biblical Esau in exchange for a mossel of "relative" peace. We cannot condone any denial of our rights as citizens. Infact we should reject such in the strongest of terms. I have no symptoms of "Southern Christian ego", which must be a condition I presume to be peculiar to people from the Southern region, rather I just happen to be a Nigerian that stands for the truism - every Nigerian has equal rights to vote and be voted for, irrespective of religion, race, gender or tribe. Anyone, region, religion or people group that does not accept this, is a threat to our survival as a nation.
The thought of appeasing the North with leadership so as to have relative in itself amounts to a contradiction. The North should create relative peace as proof that they can lead. Then maybe, just maybe, fellow progressive Northerners like will think about it.

15 September at 18:39 · Like

Wale Adediran We like going round in circles. 14 of the last 16 years have been southern. We all accept that presidency will be rotated ( this is a country of tribes). So what is the big deal about the North getting this one ? By the way, based on my assesement of our immediate need, which is to curb corruption, i have an Hausa man in mind for the presidency. The likes of Diezani will stop using billions for fuel.

15 September at 18:44 · Like

Leo Ebute I won't vote for anyone because he is a Northerner, Southerner, Christian, Muslim or Atheist. I will choose from among the often hopelessly maladroit candidates our flawed electoral process throws up, the least intolerable of the lot. Soon I hope, I will have the luxury of choosing the Best from the lot.

15 September at 18:44 · Like

Leo Ebute Besides, don't forget I am a Northerner geopolitically, upbringing, orientation, marriage... o!

15 September at 18:47 · Like

Idahosa Dave @ wale and Leo... obviously this has turned into both of u missing each oda tins..... Na both of una get discuss.... Leo na look we dey look.

15 September at 18:52 · Like

Wale Adediran Doesnt matter, i have Ijaw and Urobho in laws.... Am yoruba and christian but i want that Buhari man to chase the thieves away. Each time i see Alams, i cringe.

15 September at 18:53 · Like

Bobby Amaechi Leo, we should be looking at maximizing returns from the political class. It is defeatist and unfortunate dt the 'best' u think we have is Mr. Ebele. What are his records?

15 September at 19:40 · Like

Leo Ebute @Bobby - Let me correct that i never said GEJ is the best. I said, "I will choose from among the often hopelessly maladroit candidates our flawed electoral process throws up, the least intolerable of the lot. Soon I hope, I will have the luxury of choosing the Best from the lot."

15 September at 19:42 · Like

Bobby Amaechi Nigerians have been hoping for long. The youth (u & i) have to device methods to keep these men honest

15 September at 19:45 · Like

Leo Ebute @Wale - but Buhari is a bigger fraud than the lot. Let me explain albeit contrary to the obvious -
1. GMB overthrew Shagari's democratically elected government in 1983 as you have correctly dated, on accusations of "widespread corruption". Question:
Who in the Shagari administration went to jail for corruption?
Let me help you. If you don't find a name, then perhaps you will have no choice but to agree with me that this is perhaps the most flagrant display of fraud - to usurp the people's mandate under false and unsubstantiated accusations.
to guide you, Wikipedia defines fraud thus - "Fraud is a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain"

15 September at 19:45 · Like

Nadoo Unom I'll refer all of you to Emmanuel Bosun's message. Pls patiently listen to it and vote wisely. Thank you. (http://gospelnewsafrica.com/.../Serious-Trouble-in-the...)

Circulated

GOSPELNEWSAFRICA.COM

15 September at 19:59 · Like · Remove Preview

Leo Ebute I thought so too. I get this hush sound wherever I make this rather obvious point.

15 September at 20:26 · Like

Ekpeta Austine Hmmmm ( Egata) don't you know that you re the achitect of policy formulation. Your friends always hearken to your comment any time any day.

15 September at 20:43 · Like

Bankole Adeogun Hello Leo. A lot is unfolding on daily basis that calls to question the rationale of pitching your tent with this highly inefficient government. They couldn't even lie convincingly. 9.3 mio dollars smuggling for phantom andimaginary arms is a story that exposed how many dirty shows are going down down beneath.

18 September at 22:55 · Like

Leo Ebute @Bankole - I will repeat myself again for the umpteenth time - we are looking at the choices availble to us. We do not have the luxury of choosing who we want, we can only choose from the options available to us. My point is none of those options provides the thinking man with an compelling evidence of being any better than the incumbent. The point here is, even if GEJ is poor on all count, the others are even potentially much worse on the weight of facts we can see.
The fact that most of you tend to shy a way from showing how the alternatives can do better, seem to validate my position more than anything else. You know why you dont want GEJ, for thesame reasons you should want the others much less.
I won't respond to the incident you mentioned because the culprits were apprehended. If GEJ wanted $9.8 million USD in SA, Zuma will aid the scheme. They were caught because it had nothing to do with the president otherwise they cannot be caught in SA.

22 hours ago · Like · 1

· The post was shared here and the battle continued...it is still on but fast losing fervor

Soni Akoji shared your status update.

14 September at 15:08 ·

My friend Elizabeth Onmonya Ochigbo drew my attention to this status update, unfortunately am not a friend with the author on FB, so I could not join the debate.

Can we have our own discussion on the propriety of a Jonathan second or is it third Missionary journey?

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'Bomi Awesu Lol. Leo Ebute, I see your status has drawn some attention. Maybe you want to join in here.

14 September at 15:14 · Like · 1

Margaret Apochi Is Goodluck actually the president of Nigeria??

14 September at 15:18 · Like · 9

Soni Akoji Margaret don carry come again oooo

14 September at 15:19 · Like

King Sunny Goodluck na dulling president, Nigerians don't need him.

14 September at 15:22 · Like

Helyn Showguy D only thing he has done dat others nvr succeded at is making stealing frm govt coffers and evry other form of corruption more legal and free& fair. on dat grnds, i dnt fink he shd go on anoda missionary jrny or else b4 his jrny ends, e fit don dash nigeria out to anybody willing to drop a few million dollars. ( cuz i hear say dem nuh de thief for naira again)

14 September at 15:29 · Edited · Like · 4

Alexander Ibitoye Am lost if GEJ is actually a President i stand to be corrected.

14 September at 15:35 · Like · 2

Mohammed Paiko "Let me explain - I mean he is a better bet than the options available for us to choose from....bla bla bla...."
That is as far as I got and gave up.
Obviously, smoking weed has been legalized in some constituencies...other wise he wouldn't be advancing this as meaningful conversation or engagement, openly.
I agree totally @Ibitoye, there is still a huge room for doubt if Dr Damages is a President.

14 September at 15:45 · Edited · Like · 3

Samaila Hamalai I think Leo Ebute is yet to have a grasp of the polity. He is just out to sell GEJ. He laid down the rules and he successfully broke the rules in his first sentence. He should understand that the issue of "Northerners" turn to govern is strictly PDP affair not APC or Northerners. It was an internal arrangement of PDP to rotate d presidency. The northern clique in PDP not northerners are against GEJ to contest and there are many better option(s) than GEJ. Even "baban bola" (scavenger) overlook used toothbrush in waste bins. Leo's comments reminds me of Okupe and other fujis.

14 September at 16:59 · Like

Funmi Adegoye Guys, GEJ is our next president. Don't bother yourself, it's a done deal. *pours another glass*

14 September at 17:05 · Like

Leo Ebute @Mohammed Paiko - Actually no conversation should be more meaningful than this for any Nigerian at this stage in our political history. I think you should bring on your most intelligent argument especially because GEJ is from the party that usually wins this seat. You should do your best to win this forum at the level of thought then you can hope for the polls. Do you know who the other better candidates are? Share them. Just make sure they are actually people contesting for the seat, and not just people you think will do well. The point here is for us to see that though we may not like the incumbent, the alternatives available to us are even worse.

14 September at 17:27 · Like · 2

Leo Ebute @Samaila Hamalai - for one so dismissive of my "grasp of the polity", to quote you, I expected a bit more. If it is a strictly PDP affair then correct me by mentioning a presidential aspirant, rumur or fact, from APC that is a non-Northerner. My first sentence is my opinion which I am praying that you will finally be the one to bring up the rebuttal argument to knock off.
You see, I did not set out to be right on this issue. It is emerging that I am.

14 September at 17:35 · Like · 2

Leo Ebute @Sony Akoji - thanks for sharing this. I have added you to my friends list. It's been fire works in there and we welcome you to shoot a few missiles.

14 September at 17:44 · Like

George Eje-ejum Leo shud have told us what he knows GEJ has done in the past 5 years, that demands a come back, then let us know those contesting with GEJ for a better debate. As it is now, we don't know those in 2015 presidential race. Let's forget 'Hear Say'.

14 September at 17:58 · Like · 1

Uche Excel Ezenwe When one look @ periodization of human evolution, from stone age to civilization, one thing is significant, changes. Every period and stages comes with its own demands and challenges. If u all will permit me please let's look @ leadership, as a phenomenal factor in the development, coordination and management of human settlement. Leadership over time has undergone different processes in order to meet the needs and challenges of time. @ the peak of civilization emerged group of leaders History term OPPORTUNISTIC LEADERS. This are leaders who came to powers as a result of privileges they enjoy as d most enlighten elite of their various communities @ the time. Most of which rarely knew what power and leadership were all about. The second groups were term OPPOSITIONARY LEARDERS. This groups of leaders emerged after 1st and 2nd world war to rewrite the wrongs of the first sets of leaders. Some came to power through coup d'etat, civil unrest and one popular protest or the other. One thing was common with this group world over, the people were tired of the government of the day and needed change. Before this new sets of leaders could settle down another group emerged. THE VISIONARY LEADERS. These leaders came to power through popular vote as a result of their superior augments with facts and figures on how best a nation can be great. These leaders with a well structured political party ideology, sales their political views on Economy, social political, religion and social welfare to the people. They do not attack government and the country but policies of such government.
Ladies and gentlemen Africa and Nigeria are still lost in between OPPORTUNISTIC and OPPOSITIONARY LEADERSHIP. Please forgive me this is my sentiment APC is not a bet Jonathan is a better bet. Until APC start selling ideals capable of transforming this country they are not an option. We are tired of bring him down and destroy him politics (OPPOSITION). We want intellectuals, not people blinded by ethnic sentiments, not people who can deport a man out of his country. Not men issuing a stay permit to a man in his country.

14 September at 18:23 · Unlike · 2

Leo Ebute @George - We could go that route but I think it will abort the discussion ab initio. I think the point here is to show how potential opposing candidates are better. I make bold to say, and sadly too, that non of the candidates rumured or otherwise to contest against GEJ is better.

Speaking of your point about not knowing who the other candidate is/are, They are called the north. My Northern brothers think they 'deserve' to be president, like it is a birth right that must be bequeathed to them naturally. So instead of fighting via legitimate means to be elected, they rather begin the fighting when they, as expected, fail to be elected. They nurture a misguided feeling of deprivation at not being president when in their view, they deserve to be 'crowned' one by virtue of their ancestry, region or other similar providential considerations. They forget to express their desire for the seat through honest work like campaigns, but rather go the fools way to discount the electorate by their declaration of their right to Aso rock. Fools way it is to forget that leadership in a democracy is not first for the deserving, but for the desiring - that desire being expressed in the campaign for votes. Deserving men get appointed, not elected! Apt advise from the noblest of their kinsmen Tafawa Balewa who counselled us to "give leadership to desiring men, not deserving men - a counsel totally ignored by his kin to the glee of discerning men like GEJ who has shown a great deal of respect for democratic governace (I will dwell a little on this point later). Do they deserve to rule us? Obviously the electorate doesn't think so, that is why they didn't get our votes last time out. Why has the approach then not changed? Why are they still chanting "it is the turn of the North".

For the purpose of clarity, I am from a geopolitical area that is classified as the North, I grew up in and around the core North, Schooled in the North, married from the North. This should spare you the thought that I am projecting an anti-Northern agenda. I AM A NIGERIAN!

14 September at 18:28 · Like · 2

Aminu Bawa Leo Ebute.. Its quite obvious that you grew up on the fringes of the north and thus you have no idea and are in no position to speak as if you know what the north truly is or represents. You obviously rely on newspaper stories and street talk to frame your assumptions about a "born to rule" power hungry core northern elite who cannot exist outside the corridors of power. This exposes the depth of your ignorance about the contending power blocks in the north which is apparently beyond your ken as both an outsider and an uninformed busy body.

14 September at 21:21 · Edited · Like · 2

Abdulazeez Imran Abdulatif Where intelligence of a society is demented, what do you expect of their Yardstick?

14 September at 21:16 · Like

Phil Smart HEAD AND SHOULDER ABOVE THE REST ..

14 September at 22:02 · Like · 1

Muideen Owolabi Bakare It is too early to compare GEJ to any candidate. The picture of who and whom want to contest is not clear yet. I think this debate is PREMATURE. We will debate when the picture is clear.

14 September at 22:52 · Like

Kalu Akaraka Friday Leo Ebute, you must be feeling good with yourself. I want to spare with you on the motion you have brought forward. In doing so I suggest we do it in a systematic way, let us consider specific areas for example, let agree on a fix point to begin this enquiry. What do you consider as the biggest problem facing Nigeria today? For me it's corruption and insecurity. I await your responses.

15 September at 00:43 · Edited · Like · 2

Kalu Akaraka Friday I want to say that anybody that presents himself is likely going to be better than the clueless and uninspiring Jonathan who fifty years ago would have been a shining example who would not even aspire to lead a local government let alone an emerging nation with so much hope in Africa. The reason is simply, if anyone present himself, he would likely make certain promises, perhaps, glorious promises just to sell himself. I'm willing to admit that the new guy if he eventually wins, is likely to going to disappoint, on the flip side he may match words with deeds . So put in a mathematical form or expression, the probability is 50% whereas with Mr Jonathan it's nearly zero. Fifty percent is a fair chance against the clueless, ruderless and directionless reign of Goodluck Jonathan.

15 September at 01:11 · Edited · Like · 2

Ben Jimi Dada Leo Ebute....are you related to Ameh Ebute...Im sure you are...I wont contribute to this thread just bcos of one thing....It is evident from your few comments that you are on this page (I don't care if you were invited, lured, lobbied or begged to be here-afterall the inthing now is begging people to serve, its only that this fellowship is not one of the 8000 groups that are begging just one reluctant shepe man) to do an espionage job for TAN. I am a die-hard anti GEJ person, there is nothing that can make me change my mind about a fellow who had legalised corruption...and one of the manifestations of such evil act is the evolution of TAN itself. Please where is Daniel Kanu today, when he was at the peak of his career with YEAA, nobody could convince him then that he was just being a tool in the hand of the devil itself.....If a law had been promulgated that ascribe some times behind the bars for such crime (Formation of illegal bodies begging reluctant , incompetent, corrupt and money-miss-road people to contest)and people like Daniel Kanu had been jailed or imprisoned, do you think we will have anything like TAN today.....But this is Jonathan Nigeria where anything goes...So while you are here, please enjoy your time

15 September at 02:52 · Like · 2

Solomon Solodee Dare I wish President Jonathan would do more about the BH sponsors issues.

I wish he would go all out and crush BH.

I wish he would have those accused of gross misconduct and corruption arrested and tried.

These are things a president would jump at doing if only to increase ratings.

I think there are advisers around the President that are working against him and giving him wrong counsel laced with fear.

I hate bullies and I abhor this 'right to rule' nonsense. And if the way to go is to agree with this 'right to rule' mentality, then I'm sorry, I'm not a brother of that type'.

15 September at 05:29 · Like

George Alwell until PDP and APC present to us their candidates for presidential election i will not waist breath comparing the clueless one with anyone

15 September at 10:12 · Like

Lawrence Adebayo Fatoki I want to compare GEJ with GMB.
1. As Head of State. GEJ(2009 - date), GMB(1983 - 1984).
2. Discipline. GEJ has shown all and sundry that he is not disciplined. He surrounds himself with people that have been indicted with one looting or the other; Oduah, Diezani,etc. He doesn't bother about mismanagement in the polity. You can't say same about GMB. He is a disciplined man to the score; WAI testifies to that. Many of our leaders are afraid of him.
3. Intention to Run for Election. We are always begging GEJ to run for election. Anyone who doesn't want to run has no intention of winning the race. Begging someone to run for the presidency is an indication that the person is not interested and had no manifesto/agenda for the people. Hence, he waits for sychophants to beg him. GMB has never waivered in his intention to govern this country. It is a sign of determination of a person who has agenda for the people.
4. Corruption. GEJ is a father of corruption. He has let us know that he is not ready to deal with thieves in his government. He said that theft is not corruption. And he even treated theft in has government with levity. GMB is a no nonsense man when it comes to corruction. 4000 govrnment officials were tried in 1983, about 600 were jailed for corruption including Ekwueme, Ambrose Alli. He has zero tolerance for corruption.
5. Security. GEJ has shown he is not in charge of Nigeria. On BH alone, he is inconsistent. The government will say one thing today and another tomorrow through arrays of advisers, special advisers and senior special advisers. GMB combated Metassini's(pardon my spelling) insurgency in the North in 1983 with sense of urgency and won.
6. Focus. GMB almost cleared Nigeria's foreign debts but GEJ is bent on borrowing more. The recent is 1billion US dollars to combat BH.
GMB is far above GEJ in all ramifications and it would be disastrous if we leave such honourable,determined and honest leader for a clueless, dishonest and visionless one. Dazzol!

15 September at 12:00 · Like · 1

Chris Agbiti Leo, examine your view in respect of this topic objectively and assure yourself that it is not coloured by any political leaning or political crumbs falling from the master's table before you let yourself into the intellectual foray that you want to embark on. I have the feeling that you are about to start a debate that will intellectually drown you.

15 September at 13:02 · Like

Oje-Igidi Johntempest Leo Ebute, am sorry to say u hv found urself in the wrong forum, Soni Akoji intensionally brought u in to be flogged. I advise u stay low or members of this forum with their comments will sour the week for u. U can see from the thread already that members here are not smiling @ GEJ at all, we dont feel we have a president 5 yrs running.

15 September at 13:44 · Like

Leo Ebute @Oje - The only thing i see happening here is that most of you are either blind to the topic or have chosen to ignore it in favor of an easier one, namely - showing how the doer of deeds has not excelled. The point here is not that GEJ is even good or bad, the point is for you to show how any other candidate rumured to contest against him is better. Apparently the total lack of this essential ingredient of the discourse in your submissions, with the exception of Lawrence whom I will respond to in a minute, is in itself curious and suggests tacit acceptance of my rather "annoying" viewpoint.
I hear you saying something that sounds like "I hate that no better candidate is contesting against him even though he is so bad". That my friend is the point of this discussion.
You are certainly flogging really hard, but flogging literally nothing at the moment. I wait to take some real stripes friend.

15 September at 19:00 · Like

Leo Ebute @Chris Agbiti - I assure you that I hold a high ground on this one. Besides, i'd be happy to feel the floods of logic pour over the sad reality of my viewpoint and drown me in its wake. I'd be happy to be wrong. Sadly, I sense that beyond emotional outburst from infrequent drizzles as it were, not much to give voice to your warning has been noticed. Besides, isn't the oiled with that I would have grown bigger cerebral muscles from such exertion?

15 September at 19:12 · Like

Leo Ebute @Lawrence Adebayo Fatoki - I commend you for atleast naming a potential front runner for the seat and making some attempt at comparison. I shall address just the 2 points you raised, one with a question:
1. GMB overthrew Shagari's democratically elected government in 1983 as you have correctly dated, on accusations of "widespread corruption". Question:
Who in the Shagari administration went to jail for corruption?
Let me help you. If you don't find a name, then perhaps you will have no choice but to agree with me that this is perhaps the most flagrant display of fraud - to usurp the people's mandate under false and unsubstantiated accusations.
to guide you, Wikipedia defines fraud thus - "Fraud is a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain"

15 September at 19:22 · Edited · Like

Leo Ebute @Lawrence Adebayo Fatoki - while you are combing the web in vain and slowly realising the obvious, I will quickly respond to your second point.
If you think the activities that characterised WAI, namely, floggin grown men on the spot for urinating in public, sacking civil servants for coming late to work or any other "act of indiscipline" without recourse to the law which presumes innocence until proven guilty: If punishing even crass indiscipline in any form without trial or consideration for the dignity of the human person is a show of discipline to you; and if violating the fundamental human right - the right to a trial under any guise is acceptable to you, then indeed GMB was a disciplined man.
To the rest of us however, such is a reflection of his contempt first for the dignity of the human person, and, the laws that guide civic society. The WAI is perhaps the most brazen display of human rights abuses this country has ever witnessed. To even associate the mannerism of a raging bull in a China shop, who flogs everyone to compliance, with discipline is not only inaccurate and inappropriate, it should be considered an honest error of judgement and honorably withdrawn.

15 September at 20:30 · Edited · Like

Leo Ebute @Aminu Bawa - Pardon me. I will rather respond to submissions related to the topic of discourse. I make no claim to superior knowledge and my resume is in itself almost public information, but even if I have none, you certainly recognize my right to even the most ridiculous of opinions. You are welcome to call my opinion ridiculous and present facts and logic in defence of yours. If I am as ignorant as you suggest, then I invite you to do the easy job of running me to ground with a little less focus on my person, but on the issue.
I assure you, that perhaps only your name is more Northern than me.

15 September at 20:31 · Edited · Like

Leo Ebute Kalu Akaraka Friday - I almost missed your post. I disagree that corruption is the biggest problem in Nigeria. I think it is inept leadership. If it were corruption, the US would have biiger issues than Nigeria. I invite you to ignore the graft rating agencies and follow this simple economic logic:
Trillions of Dollars of losses and a global financial melt down were the result of activities in the US subprime Mortgage market. The logic is this, when losses are made somewhere, profits are made elsewhere. In other words, what is lost = what is found. The so-called lost moneys did not vaporise into oblivion. The activities that led to that situation happened in the US. That fraud is bigger than Nigeria's total GDP from inception to date. How come the corruption rating agencies completely missed this obvious one?
Infact, it is on record that as at December , 2011, the US has spent $29 Trillion of tax payer's money to bail out US companies like AIG, Fanny May, Freddi Mac, GM motors, and some of the biggest banks in the world. Nearly all those companies declared a profit thesame year and the CEO's got their "performance" bonuses. How? The corruption watch dogs missed that too right? An estimated 10% of that money missed the mark ($2.9trillion). That would be the equivalent of our total budget for the next 38years (at N12 trillion per annum). Their leadership managed it!
We are high on widespread corruption but so very far down on large scale corruption on any corruption-meter available.
The point here is that while their socio-economic and political systems are built on institutions guarranteed to replicate a minimum acceptable standard of leadership everytime, ours is built on the hope of a superstars emerging. The problem with this is that weak institutions tend to favour inept leadership and vise versa, so we are caught up in a vicious cycle. Corruption and impunity are just symptoms.

15 September at 20:29 · Edited · Like

Leo Ebute @Ben Jimi Dada - I am not honored to be kin to the Hon Senator Ameh Ebute - Not beyond the fact of our common roots in some distant past, somewhere in the Kwararafa empire.
I also cannot comment on anyone's political choices, especially that of Daniel Kanu which you seem to hold with a measure of disdain. I will not pretend to understand your political preference which seems to say, " if Jonathan is for it, then I am against it, even if was for it yesterday"! If I have captured your anti Jonathan sentiments well, then your state of mind is beyond the reach of reason. Reason is all this is about. I therefore honorably admit my incompetence to probe your sentiments.

15 September at 20:48 · Like

Kalu Akaraka Friday "We are high on widespread corruption but so very far down on large scale corruption on any corruption-meter available."- Leo Ebute

Question: what are the available corruption-meter?

You see, I was hoping we could agree on corruption as fixed point but I was wrong. You just danced around it, telling how me a billionaire who lost a few millions is worse off than a poor man who lost a few thousands because in his entire life time he would never make a million. What an argument? You are right leadership is the most important problem facing the country and indeed, any country for that matter, I think it is so self evident that it would not stimulate any engaging conversation here, so as a compromise, let's discuss leadership in Nigeria, let's discuss it in manner that we will not end up discussing corruption. So bring it on!
On the subject of leadership, Jonathan failed woefully, in showing the required quality of leadership in
Education
Health
Economy
Security
Amenities
Reasons: based on resources available, based on where we were and where we ought to be.

16 September at 09:20 · Edited · Like

Leo Ebute @Kalu - Firstly, thanks for atleast acknowledging that leadership is indeed the 'A' problem. My point on leadership being a bigger problem than the symptoms thereof, namiely, corruption, is premised on the fact that history has shown overwhelming evidence that great leadership and low moral and ethical values aren't mutually exclusive. It does require more effort to discuss a topic like leadership especially because its nuances are less obvious than corruption. I think we can glean some insights if we apply ourselves.
Now to the areas you highlighted as proof of GEJ's leadership failure, i'd be happy read your basis for this low score. Your specific thoughts on how the reasons you listed links to the failure you observed will greatly help us have a focused discussion on this new topic.
Let me impose a caveat - I do not think GEJ is a great leader, I have tried to show that the other available options aren't better. I will however, challenge you to provide compelling evidence of a failure of leadership attributable to this administration.

16 September at 10:57 · Like

Hollushegun Harpholabi Loe Ebute compelling evidence of GEJ failure is that most Nigerians are suffering, he does not have the political will to stem corruption in the country. eg oil subsidy, Security and Exchange Commission scandals, the Pension scam, Farouk Lawan saga etc. My brother GEJ government turned a blind eye to several fraud allegations. Again GEJ Government is corrupt eg. grants received from donor agencies which are neither budgeted nor accounted for?. GEJ government loves Propaganda eg Boko Haram which has unleashed all manner of terror on Nigerians, one might notice that despite GEJ assertions that Federal Government are winning the war on terror. GEJ government encourages and promote Corruption, Serious crimes carry a slap on the wrist and petty sentencing, while petty criminals get maximum penalties , high-profile cases never make it through the Nigerian court system. Constant Power generation, GEJ is a Failure . GEJ Depleted Nigeria's Foreign Reserve and Nigeria's external debt is increasing yearly.

16 September at 17:09 · Like

Hollushegun Harpholabi Only in Nigeria we can Have a president likeGoodluck Jonathan just a pity

16 September at 17:17 · Like

Leo Ebute Terror - America has been saying they are winning the war on terror since 9/11. They have deployed around 200,000 soldiers, have lost nearly 9000 soldiers in Iraq, afghanistan and pakistan, spent nearly $6 trillion since 2001 - 2014. Infact it March 2014 was the only Month since 2003 that America did not lose a soldier to terrorists since 2003. Yet Pakistan is still a terror hotspot, conflict has escalated in afganistan and Iraq, and in 6Months, ISIS has expanded to 4 countries and has 31,000 fighters (source - CIA). That my friend is the definition of failure. If they are winning the terror, then indeed it is far more accurate for GEJ to say we are winning the war on terror - with about 15000 soldiers, total defence budget of about $5billion/annum (maybe 10% is dedicated to fighting BH), the BH conflict has beenCONTAINED in thesame areas since 2009. That looks closer to winning that the USA's case to any observer.

17 September at 14:16 · Like

Leo Ebute I do not think this administration has done enough in terms of dealing with corruption and the other areas you mentioned. There are quite a lot that a better leader could have certainly achieved. My view is, this administration is certainly an improvement over the previous or atleast, or atleast, not as bad. It is also evident that we have dealt with terror better than the US, dealt with Ebola better than our counterparts, respected democratic structures better than previous administrations, sponsored more far reaching bills (FOI, PIB, CONFAB resolutions etc) than its predecessors, grown the economic indices better than previous, and our foreign debt to GDP ratio has never been better at anytime in our history, maintained a disciplined policy on exchange rate (only economy in Africa not witnessing major currency devaluation - less than 10% - contrast with SA and GH).
A better leader would have done more but we have never had good leaders. GEJ is not worse than any we've had and in many ways has done some quiet good. I critisize him for having the "patience of a budhist monk who just waits his enemies to death" like a distinguished member of this group described him.
Teaser - Did you know that the current EFCC chairman had more conviction in 2 years than Ribadu had in 8?

17 September at 14:50 · Like

Kalu Akaraka Friday Leo Ebute, you thanked me for admitting leadership is 'A ' problem facing the country, as you'd love to put it as opposed to corruption which I proposed. But I in turn would like to thank you for admitting that corruption and bad leadership are not mutually exclusive. But in Nigeria's case, I would still argue that the two are quite interchangeable without losing the intended meanings. Now if you have admitted that Jonathan has not been up to the task with respect to showing leadership in dealing with corruption then the matter is closed as there's very little left to discuss further. However, you put a clever caveat; he's better candidate, in other words, others are more corruption, have even worse leadership qualities if you will, but I ask, how can that be? None of them have been president before, save for Buhari who was military of head state that succeeded Shagari in '83. I do not know how old you were by then, but I tell you one thing, the only blemish Buhari had was human right records - even some victims of his harsh measure still respect him for his integrity till date eg, Tam David West. I need not remind you that it was military regime or dictatorship if you like. So I would argue he had never been president before so how can you possibly determine or say that Jonathan is better than those who have not even been tested. For purpose of this argument, I have only one test for Jonathan which is his own election promises and out many of such promises, I have only one test, the test of his leadership in dealing with corruption problems which you have really admitted, he failed. You enunciated in your view, Jonathan's lofty achievements which I have no problems with as it goes to show your own expectation level, for it's said, that it normal for a chicken that has never been to another farm, to think that the world ends in the walls it's own farm. My only problem is the, should I say, ridiculous exaggeration- Nigeria has done better than the US in fighting terrorism, you said? I can't believe you said that. Please confirm it's a mistake so that we can move. By the way, you did not answer my question about the known corruption meters you talked about.

18 September at 09:44 · Edited · Like

Leo Ebute @Kalu -1. let me correct a misrepresentation of what i said which i will just copy and paste for clarity." ...great leadership and low moral and ethical values aren't mutually exclusive." It is quite the opposite of what you called an acceptance. Let me explain, history is full of unscrupulous leaders who went on to build great empires. Octavian aka Augustus Ceaser is such an example. The German's also peaked under Adolf Hitler, Italy under Mussolini and Nicholo Marchiavelli would be crowning Jewel of where immorality did not equate to bad leadership. Bad leadership can also exist without corruption - you will see many examples in the west and Asia. Bad leadership and corruption can also be the case. The point here is it defies historic evidence to equate the 2 in a general sense without imposing a caveat.

2. Again you erroneously quoted me as saying GEJ has failed in the area of corruption while i merely pointed out the universality of the phenomenon and the inherent error in how it is measured. I wrote " I do not think this administration has done enough in terms of dealing with corruption and the other areas you mentioned. There are quite a lot that a better leader could have certainly achieved. My view is, this administration is certainly an improvement over the previous or atleast, or atleast, not as bad."

The above 2 examples imposes the necesity on me to make an honorable request that you kindly take more care in attributing statements to me so we can focus on the issues. We would have been spared 2 paragraphs.

3. When you call disregard for the dignity of the human person aka widespread flagrant human rights abuses an "only blemish", the alarm bells start banging. The Apartheid regime in SA under Pierre Botha was less corrupt than the current Zuma administration. I bet you'd have prefered Pierre Botha. Thank God you are not from SA but i bet you know which they'd prefer. I advise you take learnings from your 'chicken and farm" adage and maybe review your 'expectation' just a little bit. I cannot call one who has the record of institutionalizing the abuse of another'sfundamental human rights, an honorable. I see no integrity in a man who truncated democracy using lying pretext, a man of integrity. I cannot see how a man, who as a military dictator, did not punish anyone in the so-called corrupt Shagari administration, can then address corruption as a civillian. You allusion Tam David West's respect for GMB is irrelevant to say the least and a mere distraction to the issue.
GMB is not the only dictator we have had. He just happens to be the one with the worst human rights record!

4. How would I know if others will not be better since they have not been president before? I ask, why do we submit cv's or WAEC and JAMB results to get a job or admission respectively, into roles we have never played before? Does a good WAEC and Jamb score guarantee good performance in the university? No it doesn't. Is there a strong correlation between good grades in WAEC and good grades in the university? Certainly! To turn your logic on its head, how do you know that GEJ won't be a better president in the next term? You don't know.You are looking at history to predict the future. Buhari and the others (if any) have antecedents in divers fields of life which give us sufficient basis to forecast expected performance. For GMB antecedents, refer again to point number 3.
Your question begs the question, should or can they become presidents before we choose? Did they just fall from the sky?

5. Corruption meter: I take it that my effort vs result approach to comparing US vs Nigeria as far as the war on terror goes, left you with a choice to either challenge the obvious and overwhelming weight of evidence supporting my scorecard, but at the risk of subverting logic, or selling this nice bluff in the hope that I may, somehow let down. That "ridiculous exageration" is you out it is infact incontrovertible even among Americans. Only Nigerians actually think otherwise in an opinion poll and this is because of the phenomenon in statistics called 'perception bias'. This perception bias is what plays out in opinion based indices like the aptly named corruption perception index as used by transparency international to measure corruption. Nations with more inherent patriotic tendencies generally rank better on the corruption scale for this reason. The reverse is true for countries with low self image issues like Nigeria. Idealy, in any sound academic work, statisticians correct for this bias when perception based surveys are used.

Can we go into the meat of your argument now?

21 hrs · Edited · Like

Just thinking

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2015 Election: A friendly debate: Are there better candidates than Jonathan in the race? I don't think so. Do you?